After many years of investigations in the field of conspiracy theories, David Icke came to believe that our universe functions as a 3D illusory holographic model.

Based on the works of David Bohm , Karl Pribram, Michael Talbot and many others, Icke builds the Matrix assumption: the matters is a 3D illusion and our universe is the result of our collective web of perceptions. Our subconscious mind connected altogether works as a creator of perceptual fields. We finally create as a collective entity, a monster, some kind of Frankenstein like Icke says where the creator is outpaced by his creature, the Matrix. The so called "reptilian" plays the role of Agent Smith in the movie, controlling and ruling this world. The most fascinating aspect of his theory recalls us that everything is illusion, everything is believing, false convictions and most of the time, manipulations. You don't need to be paranoid to see that our world works with desinformations and manipulations. David give us also some pertinent answers about our true origins and the origins of our perceptual universe It is a nice journey through the life of quantum particles.

You don't have to agree with the Matrix theory of David who elaborate his model on the basis of a shamanic experience with the Ayahuasca, a so called sacred mixture from the Amazonian basin. Icke don't belong to the scientific and intellectual Gotha , needless to say. You also don't have to swallow the idea that some V.I.P are in fact shadowed or possessed by a reptilian entity. And in fact, why not? . But we think that those facts don't be detrimental to the quality of his intuitions. We don't have to forget that many theories that turned out to be correct started sometimes with dazzling and apparently irrational intuitions. Those who knows well the little world of conspiracy theories must admit that the Matrix model of David Icke give sense and meanings in an inescapably chaotic world. If you don't understand French (to read the article from Karmapolis about it), read "Tales from the Time Loop" from David Icke (Bridge of Love Edition) and also some articles about the work of Pribram and Bohm. And as Gerry Zeitlin says, don't think that our universe is in fact literally an hologram. The holographic model is just a metaphor to show us how it works. Then, read also the interview of Gerry. His views are quite different even if he agrees to some points to Icke's theory.

Interview David Icke

Karma One: Beside the fact that the Matrix (and the human Mind) is his own source ("self ware" matrix as you said), what is the real source of the Matrix. Who or what create it and in which true purpose beside the fact to entrap us? Somebody or something must have the idea to create it? Who or what is this creator?

David Icke : I would say it is our own collective subconscious that has taken on a life and mind of its own. An ancient Hindu myth says that human consciousness had begun as a ripple that decided to leave the ocean of consciousness – the ‘timeless, spaceless and eternal'. When it awakened to itself in this ‘disconnected' state, the myth said, it forgot that it was part of the infinite ocean and felt isolated and separated. This is pretty much what I am saying in my own way. In this disconnected state - like little lost children - we have collectively created the Matrix and become controlled and deluded by our own creation. I explain all this in detail in my new book, Infinite Love Is The Only Truth -- Everything Else Is Illusion.

Karma One: You say that the Matrix is a kind of self sentient, conscient being, a kind of entity that is the source of our consensual reality. What is the true nature of this entity?

David Icke : It is consciousness that has lost its way also.  You could think of it as like a 'Frankenstein' consciousness that has taken over its creator. We are its prisoners while we remain in ignorance of our plight and believe that this 'world' is 'real'. It is not. It is a projected holographic illusion very much along the lines portrayed in the first Matrix movie.

Karma One : Do we really belong to the matrix or to something else? What are our true origins?

David Icke : Everything is infinite consciousness. At that level of awareness there is no 'we', only one infinite 'I'. But in this reality we have been caught in the illusion of separation. We think in terms of parts, not the whole. This duality and polarity is the ultimate version of divide and rule. The Matrix (this illusory ‘world') is what I call the holographic Internet. Our brains/DNA are like a computer terminal linked to the World Wide Web. When you log on a computer in China, America or France you are connecting with the same Internet - the same collective reality. What you make of it gives you your sense of individuality, but the basic collective reality is the same. For instance, we all see the same car or house, but differ on what we think of them. Our DNA/brain is like a computer, decoding frequency fields - thought fields - into what we perceive as a collective reality. The 'world' we think is around us only exists in our brain/DNA -  our biological computer. The Matrix works on the same principle as television which broadcasts programmes in wave form that the TV decodes into pictures. The only difference is that our DNA/brain decode wave forms into holographic - apparently 3D - pictures.

Karma One : The matrix create the reptilian and the Illuminati to fulfil the role of the agent Smith toward human being? Why the Matrix create those agent in such a form? Why the form of reptilian?

David Icke : They have been created as part of the illusion and to keep us in the illusion - very much along the lines of Agent Smith in the first Matrix movie. Reptilian genetics - a computer program in truth - appear to be very prevalent within the Matrix for reasons I explain in detail in the new book.

Karma One : If we follow you, because of the genetic blending and manipulation of humanity, we are in fact also reptilian in some ways?

David Icke : Oh yes ... the oldest part of the human brain is known by scientists as the 'R' complex or reptilian brain. It is where we get the character traits of cold-bloodedness, lack of empathy, ritualistic behaviour and all the other traits that you find in abundance in the Illuminati. It is these characteristics that allow them to cause such death and destruction without a thought for the victims.

Karma One : Did the reptilian knows that they are "agents", some kind of artificial creation without real soul?

David Icke : The Matrix is a multi-dimensional illusion – the ultimate smoke and mirrors game. What we have on earth with the Illuminati manipulating behind the scenes with even world leaders not knowing the true story is an expression of the way the Matrix as a whole operates. Very few know who the real master is or what they are really serving. I am convinced that the reptilians are a biological computer program very much along the lines of the ‘Woman in the Red Dress' in the Matrix movie. They are not conscious in the way we understand that term. They are following their program. So soulless? Yes, in the way most people perceive ‘soul'.

Karma One : You seems to say that Godhead, Jesus and all this kind of entity are still creation of the matrix. So, they are also some kind of "agent Smith"?

David Icke : They don't have to be a perceivable Agent Smith because these concepts are beliefs. The belief does not have to exist to control the perception and behaviour of the believer. It is the belief itself that is the source of control.

Karma One : Do you know that Carlos Castaneda present our Godhead (Jesus, the Paradise , etc…) the same way?

David Icke : No I didn't.

Karma One : The concept of Paradise is always the Matrix. The Christian or Islamic paradise is still in the Matrix?

David Icke : Yes. I have a chapter in my new book called The God Program that makes this point very strongly.

Karma One : The New Age movement is also a conception of the Matrix? Do you believe as Clive Prince (Stargate conspiracy) that there is an hidden agenda to create a one world religion mixing old Egyptian knowledge, Mystery Religion and obedience to extraterrestrial ?

David Icke : Yes I do think these is validity in this. I think we have to be very careful about anyone or anything that presents a case for (a) giving your power away to anyone and (b) equates ‘One World' with centralisation of power. We can come together as one humanity without having a few dictators running everything from a central point.

All dictators operate through centralisation of decision-making and the destruction of diversity.

In the case of the New Age, the answer is a another yes. Once again I have a chapter about this in the new book – Old Age, New Age – Same Story.

Karma One : All the extraterrestrial beings are trapped like we are in the same Matrix? The challenge is the same for us than for them: to get out of this matrix?

David Icke: Those beings that take apparently ‘physical' form, yes. We and they are already out of the Matrix at the level of our infinite consciousness. It is our mental and emotional level that has become caught in the illusion that is the Matrix. It is not that we need to ‘get out' of anywhere, more to realise that it is a multi-dimensional computer game that only exists in our lower mind and emotion.

Karma One : Is it possible to transmute the Matrix in a better thing? Or do you think that the Matrix will defend herself because the way "she" worked need to be predatory?

David Icke : When we change our collective perception the Matrix will change because it is the projection of our own subconscious. We are our own controllers! We change – it changes.

Karma One : Can we find some messages or messengers who warned us about the Matrix? Did you find an entity ( like some kind of Jesus Christ or something like that) who try to warn us about the true nature of the Matrix and the religion?

David Icke : The truth of what is happening is being broadcast all the time … just as you have the broadcasts from radio and television stations in the ‘space' you are occupying now. The trick is to ‘tune' into that knowledge. Most people are not operating on those higher frequencies, however, because of the way society is structured and information is suppressed. As we open to higher levels of awareness we develop a ‘knowing' about the Matrix by accessing that information from the realms beyond its illusion.

Karma One : The Matrix seem to be a creation. So, does it start somewhere or is it an infinite creation without cause, without end?

David Icke : The concept of starting and ending is actually a Matrix illusion. There is no time, only our perception of it. It's more like a circle of experience in which we go round and round symbolically while thinking we are going forward. The past, present and future are happening at the same ‘moment'. They are different ‘points' in the circle, the cosmic merry-go-round that I call the time loop, hence my book, Tales From The Timeloop.

Karma One : Is it possible that other kind of Matrix systems exist based on fear or on something else?

David Icke : Absolutely, I think there are enormous numbers of them. They are probably what science calls ‘parallel universes', although these may be different levels of the one Matrix.

Karma One : Why a kind of "God" or what we can call the Main Source, The ONE or whatever don't fix the Matrix, don't stop this process that seems useless and endless?

David Icke : I think we are in process that will lead to this, but there is a vast amount of knowledge and understanding that I have not yet accessed and I have as many questions as anyone.

Karma One : You says that we don't need as conscience to "learn", to live different lives because the One don't need it. So why are we still pushed, caught or attracted in the Matrix?

David Icke : Why is the moth attracted to the light? Why is the mouse mesmerised by the eyes of the snake? Humanity is collectively hypnotised by the illusion, but more and more are starting to wake up.

Karma One : What is the difference between the concept of Good, Goodness in the Matrix and Good and Goodness outside the matrix, in the Infinite, the One Universe?

David Icke : The Matrix is founded on duality and polarity – opposites, or apparent opposites. So we perceive goodness and badness, light and dark, positive and negative. In the realms of Oneness in awareness of itself everything is one. So there is no good or bad. Everything just is. There is no light or dark, only the unity of all. I call it ‘isness' and it has to be experienced to be fully understood.

Karma One : Why human being need to pass through the Matrix and a alienate experience to experiment life in 3D? To learn something ?

David Icke : They don't need to pass through, they become caught in the spider's web of the five senses and other related dimensions and forget who or what they really are. They believe the illusion is real and once that happens they are trapped. And you don't seek to escape to something you don't even know exists. Imagine sitting in a prison cell believing that it was everything. Why would you seek to leave when you thought there was nowhere else to go

Karma One : If the Matrix is a trap, an illusion and that our real belonging is in the Infinite, there is no moral consideration to prevent myself to leave this world if I consider it frankly as a lost of time (even if I'm not my better judge). So, in this system, who or what can prevent people to kill themselves.

David Icke : We can't kill ourselves, except as an illusion, because there is no death, only a different state of being. 'Physical death' is part of the programming, but because we believe it in it we experience what we believe to be real.

In terms of taking your own life, it depends on the mental and emotional state of the person who leaves this world by what we call death. The Robin Williams movie, What Dreams May Come, captured this well when his wife killed herself because she was
so devastated by the death of her husband and children. She wentto a realm (another state of illusion) that matched her mental
and emotional state. It was a deeply dark place that we would call 'Hell', but it was just the projection of her own mind. In the same way, if we leave this 'world' by whatever means with a knowledge of who and what we really are, our experience will
reflect that knowledge, understanding and love. We are consciousness and we create our own reality whereever we are.

Karma One : The basic assumption that suicide is bad come from religions and religion is a believing. A Believing is an illusion? So, if a life is unbearable for somebody, nobody can forbid him to kill himself for moral reasons?

David Icke : We are eternal consciousness and death is an illusion, as I have said. However, suicide is, by its very nature, overwhelmingly the result of someone who is in a deep state of depression, fear and anquish. To take your life in that state will simply take you into another realm of experience that reflects that emotional trauma. A living 'hell' in this 'world' becomes a living 'hell' in another. That is why it is definitely not to be recommended

Karma One : You seems to says that the Matrix became with the time some kind of independent entity, some kind of Frankenstein where the creator was overtake, outrun by his creature. You says that if we change, the Matrix will change. But Let's speculate: Even if we change our subconscious minds in a snap, don't you think that the Matrix will defend itself and impeach that?

David Icke : I would say the Matrix is a projection of our own minds, indeed each of us lives in our own Matrix because of the way we each interpret reality. The Matrix may have taken on a life of its own, but in the end it depends upon us, its source, for survival. Put simply, if enough computers reprogram the Internet the nature of the Internet must change or even cease to operate. It is the same with the Matrix.

Karma One - © Karmapolis - Avril 2005


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